Q: Was Celebrimbor Feanor’s only grandchild?
ANSWER: A reader asked for clarification about how many grand-children Fëanor had. To the best of my knowledge, so far as I know, Celebrimbor was the only third-generation Fëanorian to live in Middle-earth. None of Fëanor’s sons returned alive to Valinor. Could any of them have been released from Mandos and started a family in Valinor during the Second or Third Age? I think it unlikely. The Fëanorian family seems to have been burdened by some of the greatest sins among the Noldor. But this is really open to reader interpretation.
If you accept the revised, final history of the family as published in The Peoples of Middle-earth, then only six of his sons joined Fëanor in Middle-earth. The youngest, Ambarto (equivalent to Amras by the older geneaologies), remained sleeping aboard his ship when Fëanor burned them all at Losgar. The decision to make Celebrimbor a descendant of Fëanor seems to have been fairly late, probably made in the 1960s when Tolkien quickly made changes for the Second Edition. Christopher Tolkien records two notes his father made:
Thus in the Second Edition (1966) of The Lord of the Rings, at the end of the prefatory remarks to the Tale of Years of the Second Age, he added the sentence: ‘Celebrimbor was lord of Eregion and the greatest of their craftsmen; he was descended from Feanor.’
On one of his copies of The Return of the King he underlined the name Feanor in this sentence, and wrote the following two notes on the opposite page (the opening of the first of these means, I think: ‘What then was his parentage? He must have been descended from one of Feanor’s sons, about whose progeny nothing has been told’).
How could he be? Feanor’s only descendants were his seven sons, six of whom reached Beleriand. So far nothing has been said of their wives and children. It seems probable that Celebrinbaur (silverfisted, > Celebrimbor) was son of Curufin, but though inheriting his skills he was an Elf of wholly different temper (his mother had refused to take part in the rebellion of Feanor and remained in Aman with the people of Finarphin). During their dwelling in Nargothrond as refugees he had grown to love Finrod and ” his wife, and was aghast at the behaviour of his father and would not go with him. He later became a great friend of Celeborn and Galadriel.
The second note reads:
Maedros the eldest appears to have been unwedded, also the two youngest (twins, of whom one was by evil mischance burned with the ships); Celegorm also, since he plotted to take Luthien as his wife. But Curufin, dearest to his father and chief inheritor of his father’s skills, was wedded, and had a son who came with him into exile, though his wife (unnamed) did not. Others who were wedded were Maelor, Caranthir.
However, if Maelor (Maglor) and Caranthir had wives, what became of them? Did they have children? We don’t know. Fan fiction authors and game masters may have some fun imagining who their offspring could have been and what they would have accomplished among the elves.
Q: Could Eärendil have been the Star of Bethlehem?
ANSWER: Yes. No. Whatever you wish, I suppose.
J.R.R. Tolkien identified Eärendil with “the Morning Star”, which we know as Venus. Curiously, Venus is also known as “the Evening Star”. These nicknames were bestowed upon Venus thousands of years ago by the Greeks and the Egyptians. Venus was named Aurvandil’s Toe among Germanic and Scandinavian peoples. Aurvandil is believed by some scholars to have been a great bear or monster who was defeated by a hero or by Thor. His toe or claw was broken off and thrown into the sky to serve as a memorial of his defeat. Aurvandil was the son of the sun goddess. Some scholars associate Aurvandil with Grendel, at least thematically.
That explains what the ancients thought of Venus and why it has so many names. It tells us nothing about the Star of Bethlehem. And on that account, I cannot provide you with an authoritative answer. While there are many theories about what the star may have been, modern scholars can’t even agree on how the story about the wise men and the star was told. Were they magicians? Kings? Merchants? Was the star a comet? An alignment of the planets? A configuration of other stars? A supernova? I’ve read so many theories I can’t keep them all straight.
But I don’t think Tolkien meant for Eärendil to be the Star of Bethlehem. That was an event that came long after the First Age.
Q: What was the exact relationship between Saruman and Sauron?
ANSWER: Well, that’s a good question and I don’t think J.R.R. Tolkien provided a definitive answer. On the one hand, Sauron was apparently issuing orders to Saruman. Tolkien seems to confirm that by having the Nazgûl carry orders to Orthanc. On the other hand, Saruman seems to have acted independently and rebelliously. He even plotted to keep the One Ring for himself.
As the lord of Isengard Saruman was a titular lord of Gondor, in some way connected to the Stewards. But after he seized the fortress in his own name he was essentially declaring himself to be a sovereign power. So that made him a potential ally to Sauron and when Saruman finally started using the Stone of Orthanc, or rather when Sauron finally connected with him, they appear to have formed an uneasy alliance.
I would consider Saruman to be a junior, weaker ally of Sauron. He was still trusted by many in the West right up until he betrayed Gandalf. Therefore he could not have been an open servant of Sauron prior to that time. I don’t think he viewed himself as Sauron’s servant, although he may have deferred to Sauron’s will as a matter of convenience, to avoid any direct confrontation that might have broken his own will. Sauron was still the more powerful of the two. Believing the One Ring to still exist, Saruman probably realized just how powerful Sauron really was.
Q: What are the differences in might, population, culture, and other qualities, between the Woodland Realm and Lothlorien?
ANSWER: The full question goes on to provide this clarification:
They are both predominantly Silvan realms, with leaders of different Elven denominations. Besides Nenya, which obviously gives Lothlorien a magic advantage, do the populations of the Woodland Realm and Lothlorien significantly contrast in strength, or are they equal in any way?
Essentially, a compare and contrast.
Well, the comparing and contrasting are easy enough because we know next to nothing about both realms. We don’t even know their boundaries. But in every text where Tolkien compares the two realms he says that Thranduil’s people were by far the more numerous. And given that Amroth and many of the Silvan elves of Lothlorien fled around Third Age year 1981, Lothlorien’s junior status became even further diminished.
In one of his letters Tolkien mentioned that more people in Gondor spoke Sindarin at the end of the Third Age than there were elves who could speak it in Lindon, Rivendell, and Lothlorien. Specifically, he wrote:
It may be noted that at the end of the Third Age there were prob. more people (Men) that knew Q., or spoke S., than there were Elves who did either! Though dwindling, the population of Minas Tirith and its fiefs must have been much greater than that of Lindon, Rivendell, and Lórien.†
The footnote reads thus:
† The Silvan Elves of Thranduil’s realm did not speak S. but a related language or dialect.
Q: Could Gimli have Met Frodo and Bilbo in Valinor?
ANSWER: J.R.R. Tolkien does not say how long Frodo and Bilbo lived. However, after the One Ring failed Bilbo aged very quickly. He almost certainly would have died within a short time of reaching Aman, unless the Valar kept him alive for the sake of healing. While that is a subject for speculation it’s credible, given that the Valar had the authority to extend the lives of the Númenóreans. But I think Tolkien meant for Frodo, Bilbo, and Sam to have all passed on by the time Gimli arrived. That’s just my guess. There is really no definitive answer to the question.
As for how time differs in Valinor and Middle-earth, I think Tolkien did a very poor job of describing such differences. People have used his private experimental writings to twist and distort the published stories to the point of making them nonsensical. I don’t want to venture into that kind of speculation. I think the mortals quickly died peaceful deaths relative to the years unfolding in Middle-earth.
Likewise, I don’t think Frodo would have been alive by the time Sam arrived there decades later. Of the three hobbit Ringbearers Frodo had suffered the most. While you could argue that he probably needed the most healing, I don’t think that must entail living through another 50 years waiting for Sam. He was in a great deal of pain and torment when he sailed over Sea. Frodo was seeking rest and release, not an extended lifespan.
Q: At the time of Aragorn’s coronation, how many Dúnedain were left and what become of the Dúnedain after the war of the ring?
ANSWER: I think you were asking only about the Dúnedain of the North (Eriador), Aragorn’s people. I don’t know. I doubt Tolkien had any exact figures in mind about their population. As for what became of them after the war, I think many, perhaps most if not all moved to Annúminas to help re-establish the northern realm.
Q: What would happen if Saruman had ‘found the missing links’ in his Ring lore?
ANSWER: The whole question as asked was: “What would happen if Saruman had ‘found the missing links’ in his Ring lore, and succeeded in making his own ‘Master Ring’? Would his ring control the One? or would the two rings compete with each other?”
Saruman was never as strong as Sauron. While he could presumably have made a much more powerful ring for himself than the one he had already made, it would not have made him as powerful as Sauron in possession of the One Ring. Maybe Saruman would have been powerful enough to become a new dark lord. I don’t know. We don’t have any basis for comparing the power of the Maiar to each other. Tolkien describes Sauron as if he was far and above most if not all other Maiar in native strength.
Q: What is the Source for Claiming all Ainur Are Weakened by Death?
ANSWER: The full question as asked was:
In this post (https://middle-earth.xenite.org/did-gandalf-really-die-after-killing-the-balrog/) you say that any Ainu (good or bad) that gets slain is trapped in a “self-contained prison of rage”. I would be very interested in seeing the source for this. In “Myths transformed” I could only find a passage about the fate of a “wicked” Ainu, but not something about slain Ainu in general.
The passage in “Myths Transformed” is our only explicit description of what happens when an Ainu dies a physical death. There is no reason to assume that the effect would be different for a “good” Ainu.
Gandalf only said of his own death “darkness took me; and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell.” I infer he did not have a pleasant experience. But if you insist on a clear, explicit declaration from Tolkien that all Ainu experienced death in the same way as “proof” that I am correct, you will have a long wait. There is certainly no other information about what happens to a “good” Ainu who is slain while self-incarnated. Everyone is free to extrapolate what they feel is an appropriate inference. I won’t ask you to prove your conclusion.
Q: Could the title “Black Easterling” refer to a specific faction of Easterlings
ANSWER: The full question as asked was:
I was wondering about the title of the second in command Nazgul, Khamûl. “The Black Easterling”. Of course this is one of the unsolved mysteries in the professor’s heritage, but I would like to read your thoughts about it. Could the title “Black Easterling” refer to a specific faction of Easterlings, or could it mean that he was corrupted.
This is, in my opinion, one of the coolest questions I have ever been asked. And I have no idea, no opinion, and no information upon which to base any guesses about Mr. Khamûl. He is an enigma. Why couldn’t he walk upright? Why couldn’t he smell the Ring when he was in Hobbiton? Oh, I have a thousand questions about Mr. Khamûl. I just don’t have any opinions.
I don’t know of any specific group of Easterlings Tolkien described that might fit with Khamûl’s nickname. Sorry.
Q: What do you think would have happened if Boromir had been able to take the ring from Frodo?
ANSWER: I think Boromir would have ended up like Isildur, riddled with arrows and floating down the river.
“Would he have had the strength of will to use the ring to overthrow Sauron? What would he have done?”
Boromir was a man, not a Maia. He didn’t even come close to having the strength to seize control over the Ring. Gandalf implies Aragorn might have had the strength, but the whole premise of the story is that no one can control the One Ring except Sauron. One of the best lines in the movie is where Aragorn (Viggo Mortensen) tells Boromir the Ring is Sauron’s (a line that I think actually went to Gandalf in the book).
Poor Boromir was about to face a world of hurt either way. The Orcs had already found the Fellowship by the time he tried to take the Ring. They were setting up their attack or on final approach. If he had seized the Ring he probably would have been overcome by emotions. And the Ring would have done whatever it could to get itself back to Sauron. The Orcs didn’t know why they were hunting hobbits but I doubt they would have tried to negotiate with a big scary man. They most likely would have loosed their arrows at him until he was dead. And then they would have run away like Brave, Brave Sir Robin.
See also …
- Answers for Short Questions from Tolkien Fans (September 2018)
- Short Questions and Answers (March 2018)
- More Questions with Short Answers (July 2017)
# # #
Have you read our other Tolkien and Middle-earth Questions and Answers articles?
The really interesting thing about Sauron and Saruman is that they were both originally Maiar of Aule (who, it must be admitted, has a lousy track record for keeping his Maiar in line). They certainly must have known each other, and even worked with each other, before either fell. There are also interesting correspondances between the fall of each and Aule’s desire to create new beings to teach himself.