Q: Could the Lord of the Nazgûl Have Defeated Gandalf?
ANSWER: The question, as I have written it for the title of this article, is straight-forward. The question I received from a reader in August 2017 was more detailed and less straight-forward.
My short answer is “Yes, the Lord of the Nazgûl could have slain or defeated Gandalf”. Well, I’m sure he could have slain Gandalf the Grey. I’m not sure about Gandalf the White, but given that Gandalf himself was in doubt of the outcome I’m willing to say that it would not have been a slam dunk by any means. Here is the inquiry I received:
In The Return of the King, a great deal is made of the battle-that-never-happened: Gandalf vs. the Witch-King. I was wondering: which would actually win a fight in single combat?
When Aragorn and Gandalf talk, Aragorn makes the claim that “The White Rider” is greater than the nine Black Riders. When Gandalf and Denethor discuss the matter, Denethor suggests that Gandalf has met his match in the Witch King or is perhaps outmatched, and Gandalf replies that it may be so. Was Aragorn correct, or was he talking big? Was Gandalf downplaying his own abilities, or was he actually uncertain about the match-up?
Gandalf was a Maia whereas the Nazgul were men. Gandalf the Grey was able to hold off the nine on Weathertop, yet Gandalf the White seems uncertain and hesitant about facing the Witch-King.
Last thoughts. The Witch-King is quite confident when he faces Gandalf at the ruined gates of Minas Tirith, so it is not obvious to him that he is outmatched. And yet, when Gandalf looks out over Pelennor Fields, he suggests to Pippin that events may have gone differently (i.e. that if he did not need to save Faramir from Denethor, he might have been able to save Theoden). He thinks he could at least have been of help.
And so, in short, I feel as if there are quotes that could support both sides, but I wonder which would win out if put to the test.
So, taking the last point first, I have no way of deciding “which would win out if put to the test”. Only the author of the story can decide that, and J.R.R. Tolkien cleverly side-stepped the whole issue by having Denethor go mad and try to kill Faramir, forcing Gandalf to withdraw from the battle before the issue could be decided.
Technically, Gandalf was (so far as we know) only a Maia. We already know that Maiar could be slain by beings less than Maiar because, supposedly, some of Mellkor’s Maiar were slain by Elves during the First Age. Of course, those stories were composed for a pre-Lord of the Rings mythology, not the semi-canonical world of Middle-earth as described in The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien always intended to retain a story of Glorfindel’s great sacrifice for the refugees of Gondolin, but had he managed to rewrite that story, we don’t know that he would have had Glorfindel kill a balrog. The balrog slain by Glorfindel in the earlier stories was not comparable in stature and history to the Balrog of Moria that Gandalf (the Grey) slew.
Some people insist on conflating these mythological layers, but that is inappropriate. Where J.R.R. Tolkien did go back and rewrite the older stories he made substantial changes. We simply cannot justify saying that Glorfindel or any Elf would have slain a Balrog in the First Age. The story of Gondolin’s fall could have remained very tragic and the deeds of its heroes remained great, but Tolkien had already decided there were no more than 7 Balrogs at most (and apparently only 1 survivor after the First Age).
On the other hand, the Lord of the Nazgûl was already dead, or dead enough that he didn’t fear being killed by “a man”. People will be quick to point out that Gandalf was a Maia, not a man, but he was a Maia in a man’s body (or an Elf’s body, since his northern name was translated as Gandalf, meaning “elf of the wand”). Glorfindel’s prophecy was a bit tricky (in fact, some readers complain that it was a complete trick) because in the end it was Eowyn, a woman, who dispatched the Witch-king (with a little help from a male Hobbit).
The whole setup of Gandalf-versus-Nazgûl is complicated and impossible to calculate. There is no precedent for anything like it in Tolkien’s fiction. If you assume that an Elf or Man could have slain a Maia (something NOT attested in any pre-LoTR story because the Maiar were a relatively late development), then the Witch-king (especially with his Sauron-given powers) should have had as much chance of killing Gandalf as any Elf or Man would have of killing a Maia.
On the other hand, if you assume that Ilúvatar had already weighted things in his chosen side’s favor, it seems unlikely Gandalf would have been anything like an easy “Maia-kill” even for the Lord of the Nazgûl. After all, the bad guy wasn’t simply going after the most powerful of the Istari (unfettered by the restrictions imposed by the Valar), he was going after Ilúvatar’s champion. That’s not a challenge I would want to make.
The comparison between Gandalf the Grey on Weathertop and Gandalf the White at the gates of Minas Tirith omits some inconvenient details. For one thing, only a few of the Nazgûl attacked Gandalf at Weathertop. And he really wasn’t their mission anyway. Also, when Gandalf the White first confronted the lesser eight Nazgûl on the Pelennor Fields they retreated before his power, deferring the challenge to their leader (who was not present at the time because he was on the ground commanding the approaching Mordorian army). By the time the Lord of the Nazgûl reached the gates of Minas Tirith he was at the height of his power, whatever that means.
We know that Gandalf the White was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but he still had some limitations. Also, he would not have unleashed his full power in Middle-earth because he would have destroyed the landscape and placed the lives of Men (and Elf and Dwarf and Hobbits) around him at great risk. I think that, due to acting with restraint, Gandalf the White would have been more susceptible to failure than if he were to just unleash his full fury in battle.
We simply don’t have enough information to answer this question no matter how you rewrite it. It’s only something that J.R.R. Tolkien himself could have decided.
This article is featured in the Middle-earth Blog Hot Zone.See Also
What Was the Source of Gandalf’s Fireworks?
How Much Power Did Gandalf Have?
Why Does Gandalf Say, “Fly You Fools”?
How Long Did Gandalf and the Balrog Fall?
Did Gandalf Really Die after Killing the Balrog?
How Did Gandalf Kill the Balrog of Moria?
How Does Gandalf Get His Staff Back?
Why Does Gandalf Leave Bilbo and the Dwarves in The Hobbit?
# # #
Have you read our other Tolkien and Middle-earth Questions and Answers articles?
There is precedent for a Man killing a Maia: it was Gríma Wormtongue who slew Saruman with a knife. Of course Saruman was then diminished, as was Gríma. This is quite different than the would-be showdown between Gandalf the White and the Witch-king, both at the heights of their respective powers. But it at least supports the theory that Gandalf’s defeat was a physical possibility. Whether divine intervention would have played a role is another matter and we may only speculate on the outcome… Assuming a Witch-king victory, perhaps Ilúvatar would have continued respawning Gandalfs until the job was done.
Quite true. I can’t think of anything to add.
But was Saruman not already stripped of his status as a Maia? When Gandalf rebuked him, was that not the same as an excommunication? Illuvatar could have removed that which made a Maia spiritual. And thus his body would have been just that, a man’s body without the strength of a Celecstial Spirit to protect it.
He was stripped of his status as an Istar, but not as a Maia. Saruman fundamentally was a Maia, just as much as Sam was fundamentally a Hobbit. I don’t see how it could ever be taken from him. Though he could (and probably did) squander much of his inherent power.
Much like Melkor’s spiritual form was taken from him and all of the balrogs, they became purely physical beings, unable to tap into many of their innate powers, such as discarding their corporeal form, shape shift, etc.
Gandalf the White stripped Saruman of his role as a member of the Istari, but how could he have been stripped of his essential “Maia-ness” and still animate his body? What other spirit would have occupied the mortal shell? If both Morgoth and Sauron are banished to the Void, why would lesser evildoers receive a death sentence?
What we read in the penultimate paragraph of The Scouring of the Shire is reminiscent of what we read at the Fall of Barad Dûr, “To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a gray mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing.”
That West wind presumably banishes unwanted Ainur from the bounds of Arda, but there’s still more to Creation than Arda, and as far as we know, only two Ainur were thrust into the Void. Presumably Ilúvatar did not send lesser miscreants (Balrogs, Saruman, etc.) into the Void, perhaps with the hope or expectation they could be rehabilitated.
Whenever someone asks if Character X could beat Character Y in a fight, my answer is almost always “maybe.” Like it says in Ecclesiastes, “The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all.” Battles are random and chaotic. Gandalf the White could be stronger than the Witch-king by an order of magnitude and still lose.
From what I’ve understood, I think I’d lean on the side of ‘yes’, given that the Witch-king is specifically said to be given “added demonic force” by Sauron during his command at Gondor. This is, of course, very different from Sauron himself actively taking the field, but even still, the mightiest Nazgul now has a distinct power boost so to speak from Sauron, and Gandalf himself, even after his return, notes that he himself is the (to paraphrase The Two Towers) “most dangerous being in Middle-earth, unless you were to stand at the foot of the Dark Lord himself.”
What we do know is that even after his “resurrection” Gandalf’s power is less that of Sauron, presumably even without the Ring (though I’d assume it’s at least closer to parity in that case), and that Sauron has directly imbued the Witch-king with added sorcerous power during his attack on Gondor.
To me, I agree that it would’ve by no means been a cakewalk either way, and it’s not a guaranteed outcome, but that the odds would be in the Lord of the Nazgul’s favor. If I were a betting man… yeah.
As a side note, I also strongly agree with the sentiment about Glorfindel. I always liked that Christopher makes it clear that consistency and canon aren’t what The Silmarillion’s about, both due to it internally being intended as mythology and externally being patchworked from various writings. Especially something as old and re-re-re-rewritten as Gondolin, some things just won’t add up, in the end.
Gandalf is certainly more powerful than the Witch King, however this is not sure of a victory. Shelob was stronger than Sam and we know how it all ended. I think everything depends on the circumstances, the Witch King has fate in its favor, but I disagree that Gandalf could be considered a man by prophecy, he was Maia that although embodied in a man’s body, was not one. Eowyn was of the race of men and she fulfilled the prophecy, there is no reason to doubt that a secretly incarnated Maia could not. If for some reason Gandalf could not defeat the Witch King he could at least expel him as did Glorfindel. He seems confident about facing the enemy:
”Gandalf looked through the gaping Gate, and already on the fields he heard the gathering sound of battle. He clenched his hand. ‘I must go ‘ he said. ‘The Black Rider is abroad, and he will yet bring ruin on us. I have no time.’
‘But Faramir!’ cried Pippin. ‘He is not dead, and they will burn him alive, if someone does not stop them.’
‘Burn him alive?’ said Gandalf. ‘What is this tale? Be quick!’
‘Denethor has gone to the Tombs,’ said Pippin, ‘and he has taken Faramir, and he says we are all to burn, and he will not wait, and they are to make a pyre and burn him on it, and Faramir as well. And he has sent men to fetch wood and oil. And I have told Beregond, but I’m afraid he won’t dare to leave his post: he is on guard. And what can he do anyway?’ So Pippin poured out his tale, reaching up and touching Gandalf’s knee with trembling hands. ‘Can’t you save Faramir?’
‘Maybe I can,’ said Gandalf; ‘but if I do, then others will die, I fear. Well, I must come, since no other help can reach him. But evil and sorrow will come of this. Even in the heart of our stronghold the Enemy has power to strike us: for his will it is that is at work.’”
Certainly the Witch King is not an opponent the height of the Balrog, but was Sam the height of the Elven warriors in Cirith Ungol? This means that the Witch King could defeat Gandalf? in my opinion, very unlikely, the Nazgul had no great weapons except fear, something that great spirits of the good are almost immune, besides the strength and the resistance of Gandalf was much greater than the Nazgul, remember that the Grey (less powerful) faced the some in Weathertop, although he has hit back in retirement was a great feat. as the White he was given more freedom to reveal his powers to the point of having a Fana and no more a Hroa like the other Istari, it would be very difficult for the Black Captain to injure the White Rider. The contrary is not true, we are told that no common weapon could injure the Black Captain without breaking the arm of the weapon’s handler, however Glamdring (who was far superior to the daggers of the barrows) could do a lot of damage in the Nazgul. So all speculation goes against a victory of the Witch King, unless by victory we consider an expulsion or a tactical victory capable of immobilizing the enemy that would depend on other factors, other than that I do not see how the Lord of Morgul could win this.
Part of what I loved about the story of Gandalf is that the scale of his for actually decreases as the Lord of the Rings unfolds: he casts down the Balrog, an ancient demon who claims his own life; as the White he confronts and casts out the traitor Saruman, who nonetheless was the mightiest of the Wizards; he confronts and defies the Witch-King, chief of the Nazgûl; he humiliates the Mouth of Sauron, who is a powerful sorcerer but only a mortal man.
In each Gandalf’s power and favour of Ilúvatar is revealed, yet each actually represents a lesser threat. Ilúvatar’s work is clearly to be seen, although Sauron seems utterly oblivious to it.