Questions about the Valar

An angel looks over a universe filled with clouds and light under the words 'Questions about the Valar'.
Fans of J.R.R. Tolkien ask many questions about the Valar, the angelic beings who watch over the world of Middle-earth. Here are some of the more complicated questions and answers.

Q: Questions about the Valar

ANSWER: A reader submitted the following list of questions about the Valar in August 2021:

Why did the Valar abandon Men and Dwarves to the cruelty of Morgoth just because they were mad at the Noldor? I even kind of get the other elves since they refused to be taken to Valinor, but what did the Men and Dwarves do to deserve being afflicted with the Valar’s own brother? They may not have caused Morgoth to become evil but he’s certainly their responsibility as Vice Regents over Eä. It just makes them come across as petty and vindictive.

Was it always in Eru’s mind that the Valar would retreat to a corner of the world? If not, how else could the Valar have lived out among Men when it was their time to awaken? If there was no Melkor, would the men have been the ones shoved into a corner while the Valar and Elves lived out their lives across the world? Elves do seem to be the bridge between the two opposing states of being. Were those Valar who advocated against taking the Elves to Valinor right in that they were supposed to live out their time among the Men?

It’s difficult for me to answer so many questions at once and normally I break up these kinds of messages and space out my answers. However, these questions are all connected in a couple of ways: first in that they’re asking for insights into the author’s (J.R.R. Tolkien’s) thinking; second in that they’re also asking me to speculate about motivations of the Valar.

Now, Tolkien did address some of these issues in either his letters or his private notes and essays. But we must also infer some things and to a certain extent guess at why anything happened.

Then again, the stories of the making of Arda and the rebellion of the Noldor, or essentially the early history of the Valar, was continually evolving up until Tolkien’s death in 1973. After all, he imagined revising the entire mythological framework for Middle-earth so that it would be more compatible with real geological science (among other changes he contemplated).

So one must be careful about asking after the Valar’s motivations, intentions, and capabilities because they changed over time – or Tolkien’s thoughts about these things became more refined over time. An answer based on his 1960s notes and essays wouldn’t necessarily be compatible with what he wrote in the 1930s. And Christopher Tolkien’s editorial choices for the published Silmarillion synthesized many texts from different time periods into a fairly coherent narrative that wasn’t necessarily 100% consistent with his father’s thinking at any point in time.

That said, here are my thoughts in response to your questions.

Why Didn’t the Valar Help Men and Dwarves?

In the “Myths Transformed” section of Morgoth’s Ring, Volume X of The History of Middle-earth, Christopher Tolkien published a number of rough, unfinished essays and personal notes his father had composed in the 1950s and 1960s. One of the most notable of these essays was titled “Notes On Motives in The Silmarillion”. It’s too long and broad to quote here in its entirety, but I think one of the most applicable sections for this question is in part iii:

The Valar ‘fade’ and become more impotent, precisely in proportion as the shape and constitution of things becomes more defined and settled. The longer the Past, the more nearly defined the Future, and the less room for important change (untrammelled action, on a physical plane, that is not destructive in purpose). The Past, once ‘achieved’, has become part of the ‘Music in being’. Only Eru may or can alter the ‘Music’. The last major effort, of this demiurgic kind, made by the Valar was the lifting up of the range of the Pelori to a great height. It is possible to view this as, if not an actually bad action, at least as a mistaken one. Ulmo disapproved of it. It had one good, and legitimate, object: the preservation incorrupt of at least a part of Arda. But it seemed to have a selfish or neglectful (or despairing) motive also; for the effort to preserve the Elves incorrupt there had proved a failure if they were to be left free: many had refused to come to the Blessed Realm, many had revolted and left it. Whereas, with regard to Men, Manwë and all the Valar knew quite well that they could not come to Aman at all; and the longevity (co-extensive with the life of Arda) of Valar and Eldar was expressly not permitted to Men. Thus the ‘Hiding of Valinor’ came near to countering Morgoth’s possessiveness by a rival possessiveness, setting up a private domain of light and bliss against one of darkness and domination: a palace and a pleasaunce (well-fenced) against a fortress and a dungeon. This appearance of selfish faineance in the Valar in the mythology as told is (though I have not explained it or commented on it) I think only an ‘appearance’, and one which we are apt to accept as the truth, since we are all in some degree affected by the shadow and lies of their Enemy, the Calumniator. It has to be remembered that the ‘mythology’ is represented as being two stages removed from a true record: it is based first upon Elvish records and lore about the Valar and their own dealings with them; and these have reached us (fragmentarily) only through relics of Numenorean (human) traditions, derived from the Eldar, in the earlier parts, though for later times supplemented by anthropocentric histories and tales…

So I would say that even in the First Age the Valar were constrained more and more as time passed.

Of course, I think it’s also obvious that it would have been difficult for the Valar to shield Men and Dwarves from the war with Morgoth while leaving the rebellious Elves to their own devices. And the Valar didn’t wholly abandon the Elves anyway. Even the Noldor received some assistance from the Valar (as in the Eagles of Manwë protecting Gondolin, and Ulmo preserving Voronwë from the last of Turgon’s ships, among other incidents).

And there is also a line in the Prophecy of Mandos that promises an ominous fate for all:

‘Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of FÎanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.

‘Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Deathís shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in E‰, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.’

The key line is this: “On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also.”

One could argue that the only Dwarves and Men who suffered during the War of the Jewels were those who became directly involved in Beleriand. They took part in the conflicts.

Returning to the “Notes on Motives in The Silmarillion” essay, there is another passage that sheds some light on the author’s thinking (even if only in retrospect):

In their association with the warring Eldar Men were raised to their fullest achievable stature, and by the two marriages the transference to them, or infusion into Mankind, of the noblest Elf-strain was accomplished, in readiness for the still distant, but inevitably approaching, days when the Elves would ‘fade’. The last intervention with physical force by the Valar, ending in the breaking of Thangorodrim, may then be viewed as not in fact reluctant or even unduly delayed, but timed with precision. The intervention came before the annihilation of the Eldar and the Edain. Morgoth though locally triumphant had neglected most of Middle-earth during the war; and by it he had in fact been weakened: in power and prestige (he had lost and failed to recover one of the Silmarils), and above all in mind. He had become absorbed in ‘kingship’, and though a tyrant of ogre-size and monstrous power, this was a vast fall even from his former wickedness of hate, and his terrible nihilism. He had fallen to like being a tyrant-king with conquered slaves, and vast obedient armies.

Did Ilúvatar Always Know the Valar Would Retreat to Aman?

I think he would have foreseen that the Valar would take action to preserve Arda from the damage that a full-on conflict with Melkor would entail. Each age introduces new wonders previously unforeshadowed by the Vision or the Music, but the Valar’s retreat was probably inevitable in some scope or context. It would have been part of the theme of the Ainulindalë in which Melkor’s brash attempts to control the Music occasionally overcame the original Music, but then Ilúvatar would inspire a change that overwhelmed Melkor’s arrogant “rewrites”.

So, yes, I think Ilúvatar had to know before the Valar did that they would create some kind of refuge.

How else could the Valar have lived out among Men when it was their time to awaken?

I think the passage I cited first above answers this question. The Valar knew they couldn’t dwell side-by-side with Men, the way they could with Elves. So their retreat to Aman served two purposes. It gave the Children an opportunity to develop on their own, with minimal interference from the older siblings (so to speak) – a plan marred by Melkor’s evil, of course.

And that leads me to your other question: “If there was no Melkor, would the men have been the ones shoved into a corner while the Valar and Elves lived out their lives across the world?”

No, I don’t think so. I think the Valar would have retreated anyway. They would not have wanted to interfere in the affairs of Men.

Should the Valar Have Left the Elves Alone?

I think the question presupposes that there would have been no choice without Melkor. The Valar invited the Elves to undertake the Great Journey to protect them from Melkor, and also for the selfish purpose of being able to enjoy their company.

But had Melkor not rebelled and marred Arda, the Elves, Dwarves, and Men would still have been free to choose to rebel for their own reasons. A “fall” was inevitable because the story of Middle-earth is a mythological interpretation of our own human nature.

Sooner or later there would have been conflicts, and the Elves held distinct advantages over Dwarves and Men. The Valar would have had to intervene in some way.

The invitation to sail over Sea was a convenient path to intervention. I think Tolkien would have removed the Elves from the world in some other fashion, because ultimately this all began (in his imagination) as a way of explaining why our folklores and mythologies speak of Elves and Dwarves as if they once dwelt among us, but no longer do. He never abandoned the idea of explaining how the world became diminished and simply a place for men, with no place for the fantastic creatures of myth and folklore.

Q: Why Were the Valar So ‘Hands Off’ When It Came to Middle-earth?

I received this question in September 2022:

Why were the Valar so hands off when it came to Middle-Earth especially after they defeated and captured Morgoth for a second time? Morgoth was the initial reason for all the Bad Stuff on their planet and the reason that they collectively decided to make a small part of it (Valinor) as awesome as can be instead of bothering to polish and direct the rest of the planet as well. Okay, sure, but why did they stick to that decision even after they defeated him and even his dragons and many of his balrogs? What other than Sauron, a single (if powerful and clever) Maiar stood in the way of them taking full dominion/responsibility over Arda. Or, if dominion over Men or over Elves that didn’t choose to live with them wasn’t desired, then at least protection from supernatural evils and Morgothian monstrosities.

Apparently they were willing to send tiny amounts of middling Maiar, so it wasn’t some pledge of complete isolationism. But not only did no Valar deem it worth his time to smite Sauron during any of his evils (including when he pretended to be their emissary “Annatar” or when he corrupted their actual emissary Saruman), they also couldn’t even be bothered to send one or more Maiar to Númenor as permanent guides, be it during the slow but steady downturn in relations (culminating with the banning of Elves and Quenya), or later as a counterweight to Sauron’s dark councel.

So… What gives?

I think this question was partially answered by the “Notes on Motives in The Silmarillion” essay cited above, but the essay on “The Istari” published in Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth addresses it more directly. Here is Tolkien’s reasoning (presented in fictional narrative):

…Emissaries they were from Lords of the West, the Valar, who still took counsel for the governance of Middle-earth, and when the shadow of Sauron began first to stir again took this means of resisting him. For with the consent of Eru they sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies of as of Men, real and not feigned, but subject to the fears and pains and weariness of earth, able to hunger and thirst and be slain; though because of their noble spirits they did not die, and aged only by the cares and labours of many long years. And this the Valar did, desiring to amend the errors of old, especially that they had attempted to guard and seclude the Eldar by their own might and glory fully revealed; whereas now their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men and Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt.

I think of it this way: it would be difficult if not impossible for the Valar to respect free will if they were continually telling the Children how to solve their problems. That was the essential deceit of both Morgoth and Sauron: they thought they could order everything “for the good” of the Children. They gradually became more evil and nihlistic as they proceeded down that path.

In Letter No. 131, written to Collins publisher Milton Waldman, Tolkien wrote:

… And there is Sauron. In the Silmarillion and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service of the Enemy and becoming his chief captain and servant. He repents in fear when the First Enemy is utterly defeated, but in the end does not do as was commanded, return to the judgement of the gods. He lingers in Middle-earth. Very slowly, beginning with fair motives: the reorganising and rehabilitation of the ruin of Middle-earth, ‘neglected by the gods’, he becomes a reincarnation of Evil, and a thing lusting for Complete Power – and so consumed ever more fiercely with hate (especially of gods and Elves). All through the twilight of the Second Age the Shadow is growing in the East of Middle-earth, spreading its sway more and more over Men – who multiply as the Elves begin to fade. The three main themes are thus The Delaying Elves that lingered in Middle-earth; Sauron’s growth to a new Dark Lord, master and god of Men; and Numenor-Atlantis. They are dealt with annalistically, and in two Tales or Accounts, The Rings of Power and the Downfall of Númenor. Both are the essential background to The Hobbit and its sequel.

Melkor, in Tolkien’s thought, was a little less complicated. The “good” in him died much sooner. He had only selfish motives when he came to Arda:

…Sauron, however, inherited the ‘corruption’ of Arda, and only spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings; for it was the creatures of earth, in their minds and wills, that he desired to dominate. In this way Sauron was also wiser than Melkor-Morgoth. Sauron was not a beginner of discord; and he probably knew more of the ‘Music’ than did Melkor, whose mind had always been filled with his own plans and devices, and gave little attention to other things. The time of Melkor’s greatest power, therefore, was in the physical beginnings of the World; a vast demiurgic lust for power and the achievement of his own will and designs, on a great scale. And later after things had become more stable, Melkor was more interested in and capable of dealing with a volcanic eruption, for example, than with (say) a tree. It is indeed probable that he was simply unaware of the minor or more delicate productions of Yavanna: such as small flowers.

Thus, as ‘Morgoth’, when Melkor was confronted by the existence of other inhabitants of Arda, with other wills and intelligences, he was enraged by the mere fact of their existence, and his only notion of dealing with them was by physical force, or the fear of it. His sole ultimate object was their destruction. Elves, and still more Men, he despised because of their ‘weakness’: that is their lack of physical force, or power over ‘matter’; but he was also afraid of them. He was aware, at any rate originally when still capable of rational thought, that he could not ‘annihilate’ them: that is, destroy their being; but their physical ‘life’, and incarnate form became increasingly to his mind the only thing that was worth considering.

I think Tolkien’s point was that there was no place for the Valar to be the “fixers” of the problems of Men (and Elves and Dwarves). Every time they tried to fix things, either for selfish reasons or out of a sense of duty as the custodians of the world, things tended to get worse.

The Valar had to learn to step aside and let things proceed more naturally. They limited their influence to guidance rather than direct intervention even as their ability to intervene became diminished.

Were the Valar Too Extreme with the Númenoreans?

I received this question in November 2020:

Do you think that the the response of the Valar or Eru Ilúvatar to Ar-Pharazôn’s invasion of Valinor was too extreme? For the Valar, it seems clear that they could easily have defeated the Númenóreans who invaded Valinor militarily, or instructed the Eldar to do so. Instead, they called upon Eru. And of course Eru could have done whatever he wanted. He ultimately chose to destroy not only the invaders, but the entire country of Númenor, which necessarily included civilians, the elderly, women, children, and those of the Faithful who did not leave. Would the death of the King and the complete destruction of the invading force not been enough to send the message?

I answered this question with respect to Ilúvatar’s response in a previous post.

Concerning the Valar’s role in that drama, I wrote: “As for the Valar, I think they were put in a bad position by Ar-Pharazôn. And this was probably Sauron’s plan. Essentially, the baby-sitters were faced with the choice of killing the (rebellious) babies or calling Dad and asking him to take the kids back.”

That’s a rather simplistic take on the situation. And while I don’t disagree with what I wrote, I think I was avoiding the task of explaining their response from a literary perspective. If my understanding of the Valar’s motivations is correct, then I would say that the Valar’s response (to lay down their guardianship) was about the only thing they could do. Tolkien created a narrative structure where each time the Valar were faced with a major decision (concerning the rebellious acts of Elves or Men), they tried to learn from their past decisions. In “Akallabêth” Tolkien writes that the Valar gradually withdrew their gifts and sent messengers to answer the Númenoreans’ concerns about longevity, and in general tried to give a fair amount of warning and time to reconsider.

The warnings were pretty blatant by the time Ar-Pharazôn agreed to Sauron’s invasion scheme. But they weren’t warning the Númenoreans on their own behalf. The Valar were warning them on Ilúvatar’s behalf. It was he who punished them. It was only he who could punish them. Whereas the Noldor sinned by attacking the Teleri of Alqualondë and stealing their ships, the Númenoreans attacked the Valar with the intent of demanding something the Valar had neither power nor authority to grant.

The Valar could punish the Noldor for their sins because the Noldorin spirits were confined within Eä – they had to be dealt with in the conditions of Time and Space. Men, on the other hand, were destined to go elsewhere when they died. They couldn’t be redeemed or purged by a time of waiting in the Halls of Mandos. Hence, the punishment that awaited the Númenoreans had to be determined by Ilúvatar. At least, that’s how I see it.

See also

Questions about the Maiar

Was Ilúvatar’s Response to Ar-Pharazôn’s Invasion of Valinor Too Extreme?

How Quickly Could the Valar and Maiar Have Destroyed Beleriand?

How Much Damage Would the Valar Have Caused If They Attacked Sauron?

Why Did the Valar ‘Abandon’ The Elves and Men in Middle-earth in the First Age?

Why Did the Valar Help Elves But Not Men?

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8 comments

  1. One of the typical ‘why Valar don’t solve this or that problem’ or basically anti-Valar sentiments :). Which are suprisingly often appearing for some reason (but it’s also similar to asking question why doesn’t Eru intervene more often or a criticism of real world monotheistic religions as a whole or catholicism for that same reason, the problem of existance of evil in the world etc. and other such theological disputes). Valar leaving the peoples free is the whole point, but they also need to maintain the balance of trying not to make matters worse with open show of power and not wrecking the world with open display.

    As you said, there are numerous examples of Valar actually helping, giving aid subtly or overtly, the messages, the visions and dreams sent for specific purposes, the interventions of Valar servants like the Eagles, saving Fingon, rescuing Fingolfin’s body, protecting Gondolin, saving Beren and Luthien, Hurin and Huor (all no doubt with the approval of Manwe, acts of mercy and pity on the peoples who deserved those miraculous interventions), Vala Orome was still at least until Morgoth’s return to Angband, riding out through Beleriand hunting dark creatures and monsters in his ‘wild hunt’, Ulmo was arranging things from having Turgon and Finrod receive the dreams about making the hidden fortresses so basically setting up Nargothrond and Gondolin, biding Turgon to leave weapons and armor for future Tuor, giving him message and that ‘shadow cloak’, allowing the Hurin and Huor to survive covering them with river mist, then they could be found by Eagles and brought to Gondolin, the power of Ulmo in the rivers, (even it is said that he sent messages to Men early one through water, but rarely they could comprehend) so neither the secondborn nor other peoples were left entirely alone by the Valar and a lot of their influence often subtle and unseen was still significant in guiding the course of events! Manwe and Varda were also constantly watching and observing through their powers and messengers.

    It must be noted that Valar would not take direct action since that would mean enormous amount of collateral damage to the world and the frail inhabitants of it the rational incarnate creatures that were too weak to withstand the full power which would be necessary to actually deal with Morgoth head on….this simply could make matters way worse, and bring untold destruction…in the end in War of Wrath it did destroy Beleriand and the Valar were not even using the whole power no doubt, trying to restrain themselves sending their Maiar servants and mostly orchestrating and backing up the mighty Hosts of Valinor. Beleriand was destroyed, wrecked, by inrushing waters and cracking earth and flame fissures were rent in the earth and whole land was broken! So that sort of help of direct action was bound to be destructive! In the Nature of Middle-earth there is additional text worthy to bring up:

    “Some of the Lore-masters later, considering the events which led to the lifting of the Ban (as far as Elves were concerned) debated this matter. The One, all-seeing, knew of the imposition of the Ban, and permitted it; he also permitted its maintenance for long years, in the terms devised by Manwë, though these might seem too severe even on the Ñoldor, and were a great loss to the other Elves, and also to other folk and creatures. In particular, making any communication between the Ñoldor and the Valar impossible prevented the Ñoldor, in particular or as a people, from expressed repentance, or pleading for pardon and help. Some, therefore, of these loremasters concluded that Manwë, and the Council of the Valar, erred: because of their anger; and also because, though they possessed foreknowledge of history (since the making of the Music, and the vision that Eru thereafter presented to them of the unfolding history that it had generated), certain important matters had become dark to them. They had had no part in the creation of the Children of Eru, Elves and Men, and could not ever with complete assurance foresee the actions working of their independent wills.

    But the wiser ones among them rebuked them, saying: Ye cannot say that the Valar erred, in so grave a matter, seeing that Eru knew and permitted the actions and commands of Manwë, for this is to attribute error to Him. Moreover, ye misrepresent and exaggerate the workings of the Ban and so call in question its justice. As far as concerns the Ñoldor, they obtained precisely what they demanded: freedom from the sovereignty of Manwë, and therefore also from any protection or assistance by the Valar, or indeed any meddling with their affairs. They had been advised and solemnly taught by Manwë to what straits and griefs they would come, relying only on their own wisdom and power. They rejected him; and even before they had finally left the West Lands and reached Middle-earth, they did hideous deeds of robbery and bloodshed and treachery. Then a large number of the Ñoldor, who had taken no part in this, went back to Valinor, and sought pardon and were granted it. Those that did not do so, even if not personally slayers, must share the blood guilt, if they accepted the freedom gained by it. That none of the Ñoldor should be allowed again to dwell in bodily form was an inevitable consequence. That none of the Valar or Maiar should appear in their lands to aid them was also inevitable. But it is not said that Manwë abandoned them, peoples over whom he had been appointed by Eru to be a vice-regent. His messengers could come from Valinor and did so, and though in disguised form and issuing no commands, they intervened in certain desperate events.†

    †The most notable were those Maiar who took the form of the mighty speaking eagles that we hear of in the legends of the war of the Ñoldor against Melkor, and who remained in the West of Middle-earth until the fall of Sauron and the Dominion of Men, after which they are not heard of again. Their intervention in the story of Maelor, in the duel of Fingolfin and Melkor, in the rescue of Beren and Lúthien is well known. [Beyond their knowledge were the deeds of the Eagles in the war against Sauron: in the rescue of the Ring Finder and his companions, in the Battle of Five Armies, and in the rescue of the Ringbearer from the fires of Mount Doom.]

    Moreover the Valar had great knowledge of the war of the Ñoldor and Sindar against Melkor in Thangorodrim; for great hosts of Elves were slain in that war, and some came in spirit to Mandos where all their deeds in Middle-earth were laid bare. And yet again: great and grievous as was the revolt of the Ñoldor, it was only a part of the griefs and anxieties of Manwë, only one aspect of his heavy kingship: the war against Melkor himself, which had now broken out again into new malignance. It was indeed Melkor who was the prime malefactor, the author and deviser of the revolt of the Ñoldor, though that was only again a small part of his assault upon the Valar and their land, which he had darkened and robbed of its primeval joy and beauty. From this he had escaped.”

    In any case the Valar’s job was to “leave the children of Eru free” as text of ósanwe-kenta says:

    “The office of the Elder King was to retain all his subjects in the allegiance of Eru, or to bring them back to it, and in that allegiance to leave them free.”

    Balancing between free will and fate guiding it’s hand is difficult task :).

  2. I don’t see the questions as being anti-Valar so much as being on the lines of “Why did a fantasy author not invent more effective higher powers? Why not have these demigods sort out this Morgoth before he got too strong?” To which the answer is that it wouldn’t be much of a story. “Melkor rebelled against Iluvatar and Iluvatar and the other Valar swatted him like a fly, The End.”
    Literature is about choices, especially mistaken choices, and their consequences. Tolkien knew that as well as anyone, and he knew that his story would be stronger if even the wisest and strongest characters sometimes made mistakes, or refrained from action to see what happened. Part of the fun of reading is thinking “No, no, you should be doing X, not Y, if only I could get in there and sort this out,” If an author can get their readers thinking along those lines, they’re doing something right.

    1. And by the logic of the story, since Melkor/Morgoth was initially THE most powerful, he was able to confront the direct power of the Valar combined so there was this as well….of course Morgoth later got weaker as he squandered his power but the Valar would still deal with the one of their brethren who had immense might (and they couldn’t know the full extent of Morgoth’s weakening). Morgoth even in diminishment wielded power beyond mortal calculation :). So I guess Tolkien had it covered in many aspects hehe.

  3. I think the problem is that the Valar did nothing to stop Morgoth. The curse of Valar helped Morgoth. Once Beleriand (other lands?) and the peoples living in it, were completely ruined, they intervened. The peoples of Beleriand and the rest of the world had nothing to do with the kinstrife, yet they were utterly ruined or killed.
    An alternative explanation is that the Valar were also effected by the lies of Morgoth. It seems that the Valar were split between Ulmo who intervened and the rest who did nothing. Except that it is hinted that Manwe and Varda approved of Ulmos actions. Perhaps Manwe had to be careful in order to avoid an open conflict within the Valar itself. Such a conflict would have had disastrous consequences.

    1. The problem is…..what exactly could they do to stop him? First the Darkening of Valinor was something that entirely surprised even the Valar, the power of Ungoliant was also unexpected factor into play, the pursuit after Morgoth was send but he was long gone and secure in his fortress….then the only possible answer would be to wage another war….with all it’s collateral damage….just like during Battle of the Powers when the Valar waged war for the sake of newly discoverer Elves:

      “[The] Valar made ready and came forth from Aman in strength of war, resolving to assault the fortresses of Melkor and make an end. Never did Melkor forget that this war was made for the sake of the Elves, and that they were the cause of his downfall. Yet they had no part in those deeds, and they know little of the riding of the might of the West against the North in the beginning of their days.

      Melkor met the onset of the Valar in the North-west of Middle-earth, and all that region was much broken. But the first victory of the hosts of the West was swift, and the servants of Melkor fled before them to Utumno. Then the Valar passed over Middle-earth, and they set a guard over Cuiviénen; and thereafter the Quendi knew nothing of the great Battle of the Powers, save that the Earth shook and groaned beneath them, and the waters were moved, and in the north there were lights as of mighty fires. Long and grievous was the siege of Utumno, and many battles were fought before its gates of which naught but the rumour is known to the Elves. In that time the shape of Middle-earth was changed, and the Great Sea that sundered it from Aman grew wide and deep; 1 and it broke in upon the coasts and made a deep gulf to the southward. Many lesser bays were made between the Great Gulf and Helcaraxë far in the north, where Middle-earth and Aman came nigh together. Of these the Bay of Balar was the chief; and into it the mighty river Sirion flowed down from the new-raised highlands northwards: Dorthonion, and the mountains about Hithlum. The lands of the far north were all made desolate in those days; for there Utumno was delved exceeding deep, and its pits were filled with fires and with great hosts of the servants of Melkor.

      But at the last the gates of Utumno were broken and the halls unroofed, and Melkor took refuge in the uttermost pit. Then Tulkas stood forth as champion of the Valar and wrestled with him, and cast him upon his face; and he was bound with the chain Angainor that Aulë had wrought, and led captive; and the world had peace for a long age.

      Nonetheless the Valar did not discover all the mighty vaults and caverns hidden with deceit far under the fortresses of Angband and Utumno. Many evil things still lingered there, and others were dispersed and fled into the dark and roamed in the waste places of the world, awaiting a more evil hour; and Sauron they did not find.

      But when the Battle was ended and from the ruin of the North great clouds arose and hid the stars, the Valar drew Melkor back to Valinor….”

      The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 3, Of The Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor

      After his release and later destruction of Trees and escape the Valar could no longer afford to wreck the world the same way again. But in the end during War of Wrath the fighting wrecked Beleriand anyway!

      “The news spread swiftly and Men in Eriador were filled with wonder. Although in the First Age they had dwelt in the East, rumours of the terrible war ‘beyond the Western Mountains’ [i.e. Ered Luin] had reached them; but their traditions preserved no clear account of it, and they believed that all the Men who dwelt in the lands beyond had been destroyed or drowned in great tumults of fire and inrushing seas.”

      “Thus an end was made of the power of Angband in the North, and’ the evil realm was brought to naught; and out of the deep prisons a multitude of slaves came forth beyond all hope into the light of day, and they looked upon a world that was changed. For so great was the fury of those adversaries that the northern regions of the western world were rent asunder, and the sea roared in through many chasms, and there was confusion and great noise; and rivers perished or found new paths, and the valleys were upheaved and the hills trod down; and Sirion was no more.”

      1. But the Valar did intervene anyway, after Morgoth had ruined everything.
        Morgoth seemed weaker than ever.
        Note that Melkor and Ungoliant fled from the Valar even though Ungoliant seemed superpowered.
        At least in the published Silmarillion there is no doubt that the Valar was far stronger than Morgoth and his forces.
        Perhaps Morgoth’s lies affected the Valar, which prevented them from any effective response against Morgoth (apart from the sun and the moon).
        That is, until Earendels voyage to Aman.

        Why did Ulmo help the Noldor?
        Because he was fated to do so?
        Why didn’t Valar stop Ulmo?
        But Ulmo must have had a reason to do what he did.

        1. Why did Ulmo help? Because contrary to the perceptions the Valar did not really abandon the peoples of the Elves or mortals, they intervened in smaller ways but the particular and Ulmo and the others were not forbidden from assisting in what way they deemed fit, but also the Exiles, the Noldor were under the punishment for their deeds…in any case I think the reason is far simpler….the Valar stopped from direct war and show of force…..for the sake of newly awakened mortal men:

          “It is said indeed that, even as the Valar made war upon Melkor for the sake of the Quendi1, so now for that time they forbore for the sake of the Hildor, the Aftercomers, the younger Children of Ilúvatar. For so grievous had been the hurts of Middle-earth in the war upon Utumno that the Valar feared lest even worse should now befall; whereas the Hildor should be mortal, and weaker than the Quendi to withstand fear and tumult. Moreover it was not revealed to Manwë where the beginning of Men should be, north, south, or east. Therefore the Valar sent forth light”

          The Silmarillion III Quenta Silmarillion Chapter 11: “Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor”

  4. Perhaps Tolkien decided that once Mandos (if it was he) had pronounced the Curse (or Doom), the rest of the Valar were constrained, like a mirror image of the way the Sons of Feanor and their followers were driven to ruin by their reckless oath. The Curse/Doom more or less told the Noldor “There is still time to rethink and come back, but if you carry on with this self-imposed mission, you’re on your own.” When the Noldor said “So be it” and pushed on into Beleriand, the Valar could hardly be so inconsistent as to follow them over and say “We didn’t mean all that about the unnumbered tears and being slain, we’ll help you sort out Morgoth.” They might decide to help in small ways, but first the Doom had to be played out.

    Whatever penalty the Noldor involved in the Kinslaying should have faced back in Valinor (and it’s possible, in the unprecedented circumstances, that the Valar hadn’t yet decided what the punishment should be), they were set to have a really bad time in Beleriand, so perhaps the Valar thought that would be punishment enough pro tem. Those Elves who hadn’t joined in the killing of the Teleri would likewise have to be punished for leaving Valinor without permission. Their crime might seem some degrees less heinous (to us) than the Kinslaying, but, to Tolkien as a believer, disobeying the Powers (who were in his conception the agents of God) was also a serious offence.


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