Should Thorin Oakenshield Have Been Able to Wield Orcrist?

Q: Should Thorin Oakenshield Have Been Able to Wield Orcrist?

ANSWER: In The Hobbit Thorin and Company retrieve two swords (Glamdring and Orcrist) from the treasure hoard of the three trolls whom Gandalf tricks into arguing all night until the sun turns them into stone. When the adventurers show the swords to Elrond he tells them they were made by the Elves of Gondolin for the “goblin-wars”.

Astute readers occasionally compare Tolkien’s notes on the height of Elves of the First Age (especially Noldor, many of whom dwelt in Gondolin) and Dwarves. At the very least a typical Noldo would have stood 7 feet tall or higher, whereas Thorin was between four and five feet in height.

A sword that was suitable for an elf should have been pretty long for someone of Thorin’s stature, even if it was a “short” sword. After all, Bilbo took a “knife” and named it Sting, using it as a sword (which Frodo and Sam did after him as well). Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam stood between three-and-a-half feet and four feet tall — or less than half the assumed height of a First Age Noldorin warrior.

When the artists at Weta were designing the sword that Viggo Mortensen would use in The Lord of the Rings they asked me for my opinion on what the sword should look like (the reader should NOT infer that I had any direct part in the sword’s design). I suggested a Celtic-style blade from the middle centuries of the 1st millennium BCE — these were long swords (longer than most medieval swords) and quite matched the great stature of Celtic warriors. Unlike the primitive Germans many Celtic tribes had access to good mines; but a lot of ancient Celtic weapons were also made of bronze because they date to late Bronze Age Europe.

In our discussions we explored the changes in height among the Dunedain; I pointed out that Elendil the Tall would have towered over Aragorn and that he probably matched any Noldorin warrior’s grip and reach. Wielding a sword that is too long for you makes it almost impossible to achieve much in battle. The blade swings wildly, although a very strong person may learn to control it.

Hence, once they agreed with me in principle the Weta artists were concerned that if they made Anduril too long Viggo would be unable to use it. “No problem,” I said. The sword was supposed to be reforged anyway. Who was to say Elrond’s elvish smiths wouldn’t size it for Aragorn/Viggo’s own height and reach? Hence, you never see Viggo struggling to draw his sword in the movie.

Unfortunately, Thorin (and Gandalf, who was shorter than Aragorn) does not receive a reforged blade. So while the reader might plausibly assume that Glamdring (supposedly the sword of Turgon, King of Gondolin) was short enough for Gandalf to use, Orcrist would have to be shorter still — and yet it was a famous weapon that had slain many Orcs.

I doubt Tolkien really gave the matter much thought, but considering that Thorin was the hereditary leader of his people and Durin’s Heir, and also that he was an experienced blacksmith, I think it is acceptable to rationalize that Thorin was simply strong enough to wield the elvish blade.

If you would like to read more about Thorin and Orcrist, The Heirs of Durin fansite has a neat article that sums up what is “known” about Thorin and Orcrist in both book and movie. There is also an older article that speculates on who the original owner of Orcrist may be. While I enjoy fannish speculations (having written a few myself), the story of Gondolin is rife with inconsistencies and incompatibilities. Christopher Tolkien synthesized the Gondolin elements in The Silmarillion from pre-Lord of the Rings material that was not part of the Middle-earth mythology (most of the information coming from Tolkien’s mythology for England, The Book of Lost Tales). J.R.R. Tolkien never updated the details of Gondolin’s history and people.

# # #

Have you read our other Tolkien and Middle-earth Questions and Answers articles?