Q: Why Couldn’t Anduril Have Hurt Gandalf As Narsil Had Harmed Sauron?
ANSWER: I received the following question in January 2023:
When Gandalf meets Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn Forest, Gandalf says “none of you have any weapon that could hurt me”.
Aragorn has Anduril, the Flame of the West, reforged from the shards of Narsil, the sword that was used to throw down Sauron and cut the ring from Sauron’s finger.
Couldn’t Anduril have hurt Gandalf, another Maia like Sauron?
Other than Gandalf’s statement, there is no clearly definitive assertion by Tolkien one way or another about this. I think the best anyone can do is argue by inference that Gandalf was either correct or wrong. And I think one could construct a clever argument for Gandalf’s being wrong (although I would not be inclined to believe that).
My opinion is that Gandalf the character knew what he was talking about, more so than Treebeard the character knew what he was talking about on some questionable points. But that very scene offers strong evidence for Gandalf’s point of view:
The old man was too quick for him. He sprang to his feet and leaped to the top of a large rock. There he stood, grown suddenly tall, towering above them. His hood and his grey rags were flung away. His white garments shone. He lifted up his staff, and Gimli’s axe leaped from his grasp and fell ringing on the ground. The sword of Aragorn, stiff in his motionless hand, blazed with a sudden fire. Legolas gave a great shout and shot an arrow high into the air: it vanished in a flash of flame.
This seems a pretty compelling argument for Gandalf’s divine protection. Now, that said, I’m sure someone could say something like, “but what if Gandalf drinks a lot of wine, gets drunk and passes out, and someone sneaks up on him?”
My illustrative question assumes Gandalf would get drunk and pass out if he drank enough wine. Could Gandalf the White be drugged at all? Could he have been tricked into making himself vulnerable? You’d have to assume that some convenient condition helps your hypothetical test.
In Letter No. 156, which Tolkien composed for a reply to Robert Murray in November 1954, he had a few things to say about Gandalf the White:
Gandalf really ‘died’, and was changed…’I am G. the White, who has returned from death’…There are naturally no precise modern terms to say what he was. I wd. venture to say that he was an incarnate ‘angel’– strictly an γγελος: that is, with the other Istari, wizards, ‘those who know’, an emissary from the Lords of the West, sent to Middle-earth, as the great crisis of Sauron loomed on the horizon. By ‘incarnate’ I mean they were embodied in physical bodies capable of pain, and weariness, and of afflicting the spirit with physical fear, and of being ‘killed’, though supported by the angelic spirit they might endure long, and only show slowly the wearing of care and labour.
…But in this ‘mythology’ all the ‘angelic’ powers concerned with this world were capable of many degrees of error and failing between the absolute Satanic rebellion and evil of Morgoth and his satellite Sauron, and the fainéance of some of the other higher powers or ‘gods’. The ‘wizards’ were not exempt, indeed being incarnate were more likely to stray, or err. Gandalf alone fully passes the tests, on a moral plane anyway (he makes mistakes of judgement). For in his condition it was for him a sacrifice to perish on the Bridge in defence of his companions, less perhaps than for a mortal Man or Hobbit, since he had a far greater inner power than they; but also more, since it was a humbling and abnegation of himself in conformity to ‘the Rules’: for all he could know at that moment he was the only person who could direct the resistance to Sauron successfully, and all his mission was vain. He was handing over to the Authority that ordained the Rules, and giving up personal hope of success.
That I should say is what the Authority wished, as a set-off to Saruman. The ‘wizards’, as such, had failed; or if you like: the crisis had become too grave and needed an enhancement of power. So Gandalf sacrificed himself, was accepted, and enhanced, and returned…Of course he remains similar in personality and idiosyncrasy, but both his wisdom and power are much greater. When he speaks he commands attention; the old Gandalf could not have dealt so with Théoden, nor with Saruman. He is still under the obligation of concealing his power and of teaching rather than forcing or dominating wills, but where the physical powers of the Enemy are too great for the good will of the opposers to be effective he can act in emergency as an ‘angel’ – no more violently than the release of St Peter from prison…In the end before he departs for ever he sums himself up: ‘I was the enemy of Sauron’. He might have added: ‘for that purpose I was sent to Middle-earth’. But by that he would at the end have meant more than at the beginning. He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure. ‘Naked I was sent back – for a brief time, until my task is done’. Sent back by whom, and whence? Not by the ‘gods’ whose business is only with this embodied world and its time; for he passed ‘out of thought and time’…
That’s a very complicated passage and it’s easy to lose track of what point one hopes to derive from it. In some discussions I had in the past, people would cherry-pick their supporting points, conveniently omitting statements that contradicted whatever arguments they were making. I’ve been accused of doing the same.
Even so, I think it’s plain here that Tolkien means Gandalf has been enhanced to a point that the Valar’s original (somewhat vague) plan of having the Istari help Elves, Men, and Dwarves oppose Sauron had to succeed: “Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure.” Why would God (Authority) enlarge the plan only to risk its failure again? There’s just no way that God is going to lose when going up a rebellious Maia like Sauron.
Now, that doesn’t mean Gandalf was guaranteed to be the last and only solution for victory. But it does beg the question of why God should intervene at all if his plan isn’t going to work? How many failures should Authority tolerate before resolving the problem?
The mechanism by which Gandalf was protected from harm isn’t important, in my opinion. All that matters is that Gandalf couldn’t be slain again. And this is one of the chief reasons why many commentators compare Gandalf to Jesus. He is a literary “Christ-figure” because he dies and is resurrected and leads the West to victory over Sauron. That was his new purpose.
So I don’t think Anduril could have harmed Gandalf the White. I just don’t know how Tolkien would have explained an attempt to inflict harm on him with a comparable weapon failing.
I Received A Similar Question in 2017
This isn’t the first time I’ve taken on the question of whether Anduril could have harmed Gandalf the White. I wrote that article in 2018. I don’t think I answered the question as directly as I’ve attempted to in this article.
Gandalf the White is a special kind of character who could only be introduced into the story after the main plan has failed. He is not exactly a savior (because he doesn’t really save the world) so much as he is an insurance policy against defeat. Gandalf’s wisdom and strength helped Aragorn lead the armies of Gondor and Rohan in a strategic move that drew Sauron’s attention away from Frodo.
Gandalf the White was instrumental to the success of the Fellowship, and perhaps even pivotal. The Council of Elrond’s plan wouldn’t have worked without his healing of Theoden and protection of Faramir. Hence, I just don’t think any weapon could have harmed Gandalf the White, even though he still feared death. He was incarnated but this time he was on a mission to ensure the defeat of Sauron. That mission would only fail if Gandalf himself failed to stay on plan.
See also
How Did Gandalf become A White Wizard?
How Did Galadriel Know Gandalf Was Alive?
Could the Lord of the Nazgûl Have Defeated Gandalf?
Did Gandalf Really Die after Killing the Balrog?
How Much Power Did Gandalf Have?
Would Gandalf Have Returned If Saruman Had Stayed Faithful?
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Does that also mean he would have had increased resistance to the influence of the Ring? Let’s say he gets offered the Ring again by Frodo. Coule he just accept and go throw it into the fires of Mount Doom himself, because his elevation also renders him immune from corruption?
I don’t know. I think the Ring’s influence was more about personal choices than strength or power. Frodo almost offered the One Ring like candy to people and most of them rejected it. Bombadil asked for it, played with it, and laughed at it. Gandalf rejected it. Aragorn said he could take the Ring if he wanted it, but he passed the test. Someone at Rivendell (maybe Gandalf, Sam, or Aragorn) put the Ring on a new chain for Frodo. And so on. Lots of people came into contact or close proximity with the Ring but only Boromir actually fell prey to its temptation (before Frodo). So I’m not sure Gandalf would have needed strengthening against the Ring, or if Tolkien meant to imply that Iluvatar would cross that line.
Only Aragorn is allowed to wield Andúril, or so he suggests at Edoras when he says death will come to anyone who draws it except Elendil’s heir. Aragorn can be bombastic but he isn’t a liar, so he presumably believes his own statement, and has reasons to think it accurate. And Aragorn is one man who’s pretty much guaranteed not to set about Gandalf for any reason! So that’s one protection that Gandalf has against Andúril coming down on his hat.
Plus, I think it’s safe to assume that Gandalf knew what he was talking about when he said that none of the “Three Hunters” had any weapon that could harm him. He had after all been rebooted and prepped for his reincarnation by Iluvatar, who was hardly going to take the risk of his emissary being cut down by some random with an ordinary axe or sword. So Gandalf either knew he was actually sword/axe/arrow proof in some way or knew he had the capacity to deflect any ordinary weapon aimed at him, under any circumstances. Whether this extended to a defence against the weapons of Lord of the Nazgûl, we never discovered.
I would guess Gandalf the White was stronger than Sauron because he was purer, that Sauron had put much of his power into the Ring and no doubt he had lost much power saving himself from the Downfall of Numenor.
Perhaps the mission would have failed only if Gandalf himself failed, but I’m not sure if Gandalf himself saw things that way. As you probably know, he was visibly shaken when he heard Faramir’s account of Frodo and Sam.
“As [Faramir’s] story was unfolded of his meeting with Frodo and his servant and of the events at Henneth Annûn, Pippin became aware that Gandalf’s hands were trembling as they clutched the carven wood. White they seemed now and very old, and as he looked at them, suddenly with a thrill of fear Pippin knew that Gandalf, Gandalf himself, was troubled, even afraid. The air of the room was close and still. At last when Faramir spoke of his parting with the travellers, and of their resolve to go to Cirith Ungol, his voice fell, and he shook his head and sighed. Then Gandalf sprang up.
‘Cirith Ungol? Morgul Vale? he said. ‘The time, Faramir, the time? When did you part with them? When would they reach that accursed valley?’” (LR, V.4)
Afterwards, Pippin asked him if there’s any hope, and he responded, “There never was much hope. Just a fool’s hope, as I have been told. And when I heard of Cirith Ungol… my heart almost failed me.”
Of course, he immediately finds hope again as he surmises that Aragorn may have used the Orthanc Stone to provoke Sauron. But for a moment at least, he was apparently in considerable doubt. Perhaps Gandalf’s long-term mission to defeat Sauron would have ultimately succeeded even if the Quest had failed and Sauron had recovered the Ring. But again, I’m not sure Gandalf would have agreed. Though that begs the question of whether the Authority would have responded with another intervention.
Although Gandalf returned with added strength and authority, he was obviously still under some constraints, especially as he had been “dressed” again in roughly the same flesh as before. Having a body which needed occasional rest and refreshment, although it could plainly take hefty punishment, he would logically be also subject to occasional doubts and anxieties.
And we do have one example of his being asleep (though not drunkenly so!) and someone sneaking up on him, as when Pippin swipes the Palantir and replaces it with a stone. Gandalf was still human enough to sleep that deeply.
This type of question annoys me. I’ve seen similar expressed before, sometimes taking the form “if A can beat B and B can beat C, why can’t A beat C?”
I think readers asking these questions are trying to simplify the story to a set of “rules”, then use those “rules” to draw conclusions or make inferences, and when the “rules” don’t work they see it as a “plot hole” rather than a fault in their initial approach.
In the case of Gandalf and Anduril, one does indeed not need much more than to state that Gandalf the White is a different order of being. But if we really wanted we couid add that Sauron at the Last Alliance was a being who had all of his power in the Ring, and had already been physically defeated twice – once by Lúthien and once in the Fall, the latter even “killing” him.
I do occasionally receive gamer-centric questions, but in this case I think the inquiry was more legitimately along the lines of “did Tolkien explain why Gandalf would say this?” And I think (as I argue above) that Tolkien did have an opinion. But he was coy about sharing that opinion, because he wanted the reader to enjoy some mystery.