Q: Why Did So Few People Know Where to Find Imladris?
ANSWER: Imladris, or Rivendell, was once an important outpost of Gil-galad’s realm. But by the end of the Third Age, few people in Eriador or Gondor seemed to know where to find it. In January 2021, a reader submitted the following question:
Why was Imladris described by Boromir as “[…] of which many had heard, but few knew where it lay.” Was there really such a divide between the north and the south, so the knowledge of lands and settlements north of Rohan was forgotten? There are no settlements between Rohan and Bree, same on the other side of the Mountains, but was the North really totally forgotten by Gondor?
Your question kind of reminds me of an old joke, of which there are numerous variations. The joke is about 3 men from different backgrounds (often a Protestant minister, Catholic priest, and a Rabbi) who are gambling illegally. The police break in and ask the first two if they’re breaking the law. The men lie. So the police turn to the Rabbi and ask if he has been gambling, and he replies, “With whom?”
Well, as for whether the north was forgotten in Gondor, I don’t think so. But you could say that by the end of the Third Age there were two northern horizons in Gondor. The near northern horizon ended with Rohan’s northern border (and Isengard). Rohan was Gondor’s only remaining ally (although technically Isengard was a vassalage of Gondor). The Gondorians had no contact with any other friendly peoples.
Also, Gondor had been under frequent assault from the east for several hundred years. It’s not like the Stewards had time and resources to think about re-establishing relations with the northern realms.
And with whom would they re-establish relations? Since the late 20th century (Third Age), every realm Gondor had known about and maintained some contact with had either been overthrown, diminished, or fallen silent. Arnor was gone (and its three successor states) as was Khazad-dûm; Lorien had lost Amroth, and many Silvan Elves from Lorien fled through Gondor to Edhellond, which was then abandoned. Maybe Cirdan occasionally exchanged trade or messages with Gondor, but would there have been any reason to do so?
Tharbad was abandoned in 2912.
Thorin’s people only dwelt in Dunland (not friendly to Gondor) for 30 years.
The Bree-land shrank down to four insignificant villages.
Elrond occasionally welcomed travelers on the East-West Road, but even Gandalf had trouble finding the refuge in The Hobbit. The Dunedain of the North maintained contact with the Eldar of Imladris and Mithlond, and with the Bree-folk. They guarded the Shire and probably maintained some kind of garrison at Tharbad until it was abandoned.
The Shire’s most southerly trading partner was Isengard, but by the end of the Third Age and the War of the Ring Saruman had claimed it for his own. He wasn’t keeping Denethor informed of events in the north, apparently.
When the Fellowship debated how far south they should follow the Anduin, Aragorn wanted to continue south past the rapids and the Falls of Rauros. He said:”…No road was made by the Men of Gondor in this region, for even in their great days their realm did not reach up Anduin beyond the Emyn Muil; but there is a portage-way somewhere on the western shore, if I can find it. It cannot yet have perished; for light boats used to journey out of Wilderland down to Osgiliath, and still did so until a few years ago, when the Orcs of Mordor began to multiply.”
And to that Boromir replied: “Seldom in my life has any boat come out of the North, and the Orcs prowl on the east-shore.”
So, with whom was Gondor supposed to maintain contact (and therefore knowledge of events) in the north? It had been more than 100 years since Tharbad had been abandoned. Any northmen who visited Gondor from beyond the Argonath were presumably Beornings, but they apparently didn’t cross the mountains to explore Eriador.
By the time Boromir lost his horse at Tharbad, he would have been forced to follow the grassy remnants of the Greenway to Bree. There no one would have been able to tell him how to find Imladris. They might have heard of Rivendell or Imladris, but the Bree-folk weren’t travelers and explorers. And it would only be by random chance that Boromir might meet any Dwarves, Elves, or Rangers who could lead him on the right path.
At best, I think, someone could have told him to follow the Road eastward. But beyond that he’d have to figure things out for himself. He doesn’t say he met anyone in the wilderness who provided any help.
Also, Boromir may have encountered more than one ancient road. The book mentions many unnamed roads. Although it doesn’t mention any between Tharbad and Imladris, the narrative implies there were remnants of ancient roads all over the place. It could even be that instead of walking up to Bree, Boromir found one such track leading out of Tharbad along the Gwathló and followed it north. He might have met no one, or only travelers, or perhaps only very suspicious northern Dunedain.
Of his journey, Boromir only said (in Rivendell) “…long have I wandered by roads forgotten, seeking the house of Elrond, of which many had heard, but few knew where it lay” and (in Lorien) “…When I was sent out as a messenger, I passed through the Gap by the skirts of the White Mountains, and crossed the Isen and the Greyflood into Northerland. A long and wearisome journey. Four hundred leagues I reckoned it, and it took me many months; for I lost my horse at Tharbad, at the fording of the Greyflood.”
Between the Dwarves, Elves, and Rangers there were clearly plenty of people who knew where to find Imladris in the north. But they were no longer communicating with Gondor. Except for the one in Elostirion, all the northern Palantíri had been lost for a thousand years. I think Boromir just didn’t meet many people to consult with, who had actually been there.
This article is featured in the Middle-earth Blog Hot Zone.See Also
Where Did Boromir Die in The Lord of the Rings?
Why Are There So Few Roads in Middle-earth?
How Many Roads Led into the Shire?
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I had always chalked up the difficulty in finding Rivendell to Elrond’s ring ala Galadriel’s ring and the hiding and defense of Lórien. I doubt the Elves were advertising its location in general but I’ve always thought that they were deliberately obscuring it. After all, IIRC, it’s described as a “hidden refuge.”
On the east-west road you normally only run into “dwarves, hurrying along on business of their own, and with no help and few words to spare for strangers,” and there’s no particular reason to think that all dwarves would know how to find the place. Glóin did, of course, but he had been there before.
My best bet is that he was headed in the right direction and ran into some Rangers or elves from Imladris. Elrond had sent people out to search for Frodo, and they might have been on the way back. Perhaps they even escorted him in.
But, of course, he was MEANT to find Imladris. It was a quest in response to a prophetic dream.
I’ve always understood, from my first reading of The Hobbit and from thence to LoTR, Silmarillion, and beyond, that Elf realms were hidden from mere mortals. Our introduction to Rivendell in The Hobbit makes it clear it’s a hidden realm, despite being the Last Homely House. The realm of the un-named Elf-king of Mirkwood (Thranduil) was not a goal on Thorin’s quest – accidental visitors (and especially Dwarves) were clearly unwelcome.
Though the maps in LoTR show the East – West Road leading right to Rivendell’s door, after the fall of the North Kingdom Rivendell was clearly off the beaten path as far as Men and Hobbits were concerned. The Forsaken Inn (hardly an example of good branding) was just a day’s journey east of Bree. Though the village of Woodhall would seem to have been named for Gildor’s woodland refuge in the hills overlooking that hamlet, it was clearly a secret to Hobbits. Despite their proximity to the Shire, The Gray Havens were clearly not a destination for Hobbits on holiday offering the lure of seafood feasts, whale watching excursions, and wind-swept links golf. And of Lothlórien what needs to be said?
Then on to The Silmarillion; Doriath, Gondolin, even the Undying Lands themselves… legendary but unattainable places to all but the most determined and favored mortals.
So I’ve always taken Boromir’s quest to be just that; a heroic effort by an exceptional Man to find a place protected in part by one of the Three.
What might Boromir have learned from the scrolls of Minas Tirith, had he spent more time planning his journey? Boromir the Impulsive would have asked his father rather than delve into the scrolls on his own, and self-described “master of lore” or not, Denethor hadn’t a clue. (At the Council of Elrond, regarding another bit of lore, Gandalf quoted Denethor, “…But unless you have more skill even than Saruman, who has studied here long, you will find naught that is not well known to me, who am master of the lore of this City.”)
Saruman! How might the tale have twisted had Denethor suggested that Boromir stop at Isengard for directions? After all, the head of the White Council was not yet known to be a turncoat and would certainly know the way. As a nominal vassal of Gondor he would have been expected to extend hospitality to Boromir, and Boromir himself reports he forded the Isen. It’s like driving past “Last Gas for 500 Miles.”
Had word of Faramir’s and Boromir’s dream not already reached Saruman, Saruman would have then heard it direct from the horseman’s mouth. Boromir set out from Minas Tirith on July 4 and Gandalf was imprisoned by Saruman on July 10. Boromir might have arrived at Orthanc about a week later. It seems plausible that Boromir, too, would have been waylaid in some fashion, or sent off on a wild goose chase. It seems unlikely Saruman would have tipped his hand to Denethor so early, so I lean towards deception rather than imprisonment for Boromir. Meanwhile, the Black Riders crossed the Fords of Isen about two months later, on September 18. Given that kind of head start, Saruman or his minions might have reached Hobbiton well before Frodo and Company hit the road.
But we’re not here for fan fiction. Suffice it to say, Rivendell was meant to be a hidden refuge, not a highway rest stop.
It’s a minor point, I know, but Boromir has been away from his duties for 110 days seeking Imladris and the answer to his riddle. He has responsibilities back in Gondor, and Sauron is already applying pressure to Minas Tirith. How did Elrond and/or Gandalf persuade him to stay on at Rivendell for weeks, while everyone is waiting for news of the Nazgûl? There was no indication at the Council that Boromir would be one of the Fellowship of the Ring, or that there would even be a FOTR. He must have been champing at the bit to get back and rejoin the fighting, even if it did mean another long journey. He wasn’t likely to have been worried about his personal safety – he was a courageous man.
Another minor puzzle for me has always been that Gandalf, Denethor and Faramir all appeared to know each other, yet when Boromir appeared at Rivendell Elrond introduced him to Gandalf as a stranger. It seems odd that Gandalf and Boromir would not have met at least occasionally at Minas Tirith. Also, Boromir doesn’t name his brother when talking about the dream. Presumably he never mentions him during the two months or so of the stay either, nor during the Fellowship’s journey (they must have talked about something on the road). Had he done so, Frodo might have recognised the name when meeting Faramir in Ithilien.
The mundane explanation, I suppose, is that Tolkien couldn’t be expected to notice and fix every plotting loophole, however I do wonder if there could be in-universe explanations for Boromir staying on after the Council and being apparently previously unacquainted with Gandalf.
My initial thought was, “Hmm, those do seem like plot holes,” but maybe not so.
Consider Boromir’s character. As a man of action, he wasn’t the type to hang around the Halls of Denethor where he’d meet Gandalf – he was off battling in Ithilien and Osgiliath and pursuing other soldierly/heroic tasks. It seems likely Gandalf would have known of Boromir by reputation, but Gandalf likes to play things close to the vest. Yes, after 110 days on the road Boromir was probably itching to return to Gondor, but would he be the type to hurry home alone when he might instead be a hero in an epic quest that might topple Sauron once and for all? By the time the noon-bell rang during The Council of Elrond the nature of the quest had already been laid out, only the membership and logistical preparations required additional time. Merry and Pippin might worry whether they could be part of Frodo’s entourage, but Boromir was a shoe-in and he had the ego to know it. And, as we know, he was drawn to the Ring. He wouldn’t walk (or ride) away from the chance that he might wield it to his personal glory. From the standpoint of plot mechanics, the story needed someone who would succumb to the lure of the Ring (besides Gollum). Men have always seemed the most corruptible of Ilúvatar’s creations. Aragorn had to be incorruptible, so enter Boromir.
Why no mention of Faramir, other than as “my brother?” The same overblown, heroic ego. He had the dream once, Faramir many times, yet it was Boromir that demanded the task of seeking the answer in Imladris. Only later do we learn just how admirable Faramir is. Boromir may have a bit more brawn, but deep down methinks he harbored deep insecurities. It also aids plot mechanics. Our introduction to Faramir works far better when there’s less foreshadowing.
Yes, all that hangs together well, thank you. Boromir is a very interesting character. Undoubtedly he has a lot of ego and front, and a high opinion of his own worth. That’s why the Ring finally gets hold of him. But he’s also brave, resourceful and dependable, he can stand his ground against Orcs and Wargs and he will even have a go at a Balrog. He’s not too proud to look after the safety of weaker beings like hobbits, and he is clearly much respected by his companions. His downfall is a tragedy in the true dramatic sense.
That was my thought as well. Also, Boromir would know that Aragorn would be accompanying the ring, and regardless of his pleasant conversation and seeming respect towards Aragorn, it’s clear that he saw he as a rival. If there was any chance of Aragorn going on an epic quest with the ring ending at Minas Tirith, Boromir would want to know about it and presumably want to go with him. He can’t afford Aragorn bathing himself in glory when he wasn’t there.